Hatz Biplane Association

I'm seriously considering buying a completed Hatz (I'm honest enough with myself to know I'd never finish one). The only open cockpit plane I've flown in was a PT-19 which was surprisingly quiet. How is the Hatz? Is there much head buffeting and/or noise? Since I ride motorcycles I know there are a lot of variables such as a person's height, windscreen angle and height, etc, but, in general, how is it?

I'm also curious if folks are flying them in the winter. I'm in central Indiana where we don't get much snow but it gets plenty cold. I'll occasionally bundle up and fly a Cub with it's lackluster heater in 30F degree weather. I don't relish it, but I like to keep the rust off my tailwheel skills and run the engine at least monthly. Are you Hatz owners flying in the winter?

Thanks

Scott,

After just flying ours from Flabob to Blakesburg and beyond, I'm prepared to give you an absolutely difinitive answer. Ready? Here it is:

It depends........

The rear cockpit of NX1279 is perfectly fine if wearing a headset. If I take out the seat cushion and get 2" lower, it's even better. When the exhaust was on the side of the airplane instead of below, it was intolerable.

Even with the new exhaust, the front cockpit is pretty noisy and communication with passengers is challenging. They're not complaining about the noise, but have a hard time hearing the intercom sometimes. (They could be just ignoring me)

Power settings and speed have a great effect. 2700 rpm is pretty loud. 90+ mph is pretty windy. Throttled back to 2200 rpm and just putting along at 65 mph is very relaxing.
Our windshields are a little too low, but any higher would make it even harder for passengers to get in the front, besides, the lower windshields look way cooler.

I've decided that worrying about wind or noise with a biplane is the same as worrying about wind or noise on a motorcycle. It's just part of the deal, same with the temperatures.

Here's a great way of looking at biplanes.......

Indeed, were it not for the noise, relentless hurricane-force wind sometimes mixed with bullets of rain in the face, occasional bug in the mouth, near impossibility of communication, danger of hypothermia, unshielded exposure to the sun's deadly gamma rays, nonexistent baggage space, low-pressure airflow over the cockpits that can suck out cigarettes and charts, dismal forward visibility and it's otherwise shameless impracticality, an open-cockpit biplane might just be the most ideal aircraft ever concieved -- surely, the most wonderous of all man's wonderous machines.
(Pete Fusco)

Mark

You're quite the salesman, Mark! Actually, I understand completely - 2 of my motorcycles are antiques without farings and I ride about 15000 miles a year in all weather so I'm pretty tolerant to being cold, wet, and unable to hear.. As far as noise/wind buffeting goes I'll just have to get a ride when I find a good candidate to buy. My wife has insisted on going along on any pre-buy inspection so, obviously, her reaction is more important than mine. I was just so surprised at how serene the PT-19 was that I wondered how the Hatz compared. My wife and I are both pilots and although she loves taking trips IFR in modern aircraft, we find that in the past few years we spend most of our time in our club's Cub. A low, slow biplane seems right in line with our interests.

If you like a Cub, you'll love a Hatz.

Hi Guys,

Mine is loud (open side exit exhaust), windy (short windshields), and no heat, just how it is supposed to be.

Love to fly it in winter (wisconsin), better performance, better weather, and lots of great lakes to explore. We have several folks that plow runways on the lakes up here and then have some fun fly inn/ chili dumps, I am planning to put mine on skis someday. I am good for about 45 minutes when it gets really cold, it is all about attitude. If you ride motorcycles year round you will be fine. Bundle up, get rid of the seat cushion, and if no one will go with you cover the front pit.

Luke

The rear pit is definitely noisier, at least mine is (O-320, long stacks, framed windscreens). There is some downwash off the centersection that you don't have in some biplanes. I use David Clarks with a foam muff covered with a leather cover (AC Spruce) that helps communication a lot, although its still a little iffy at cruise. No trouble with ATC though. I used to fly in the low 30's when my age was in the low 30's. Now the mid 40's are my limit. She sure gets off quick and climbs great in that cold though.
I fly an open pit AgCat sometimes and its actually quieter than the Hatz.

Steve G

When I ride my bikes in the cold I use a heated jacket liner. It has thin resistive wires snaked around inside that heat up. If your electrical system can handle a 6 or 7 amp current draw something like this might be nice in the plane. It was 40F on my 45 minute ride to work this morning and I was toasty warm. They make heated gloves, socks, and pant liners too, although I've never felt the need for anything but the jacket liner. http://www.warmnsafe.com is where I bought mine, but there are a couple other well regarded companies out there selling similar stuff.

I'm in Phase 1 flight testing and can relay a couple of wind anecdotes. First I used temper foam seat cushions with three layers (soft,medium,hard) that put my head clearly half-way above the Stearman style windshield. I'm 6' and wear a cloth flying helmet. Conditions were very windy to the point of discomfort. I took the bottom seat cushion out and cut approximately 2" of foam off the bottom and reattached the cover. Much better now. My head is just a bit over the top of the windscreen. As I get more proficient with my landings I may remove more of the seat cushion. I have been thinking about some type of mod to attach to the windscreen to reduce turbulence or direct air away from my head. Don't get me wrong the cushion change I made makes it totally tolerable. I too ride motorcycle with and without fairings.

Second, I am using an XCOM transceiver with built in intercom and older non-ANR David Clarks. The problem occurs when I turn my head from side to side checking for traffic and the wind causes the electret microphone to trigger. I purchased a larger mic muff and small leather cover. This helped some but still have the electret triggering when I turn my head. Talking to ATC I must lean forward a bit to get a clear transmission and reception. If I have the radio set to intercom the wind noise is constant and hearing ATC is nearly impossible to hear a transmissions/receptions. So, at least during test flying, I leave the intercom off. If I keep my head in the 'sweet spot' wind does not affect radio use. Anyone with a suggestion to improve communications I'm all ears...lol. Maybe there's a BOSE ANR in my future?

I just bought a CB-1 and flew it home 10 hours in a day and half. It was pretty miserable but it's not supposed to be a XC plane. I was flying an old mail route, and I couldn't help but think that people used to do this for their job.

Anyway, after getting a shiatsu massage to the head and face for a day and a half, I've decided to explore the idea of placing some micro VGs around the windscreens and maybe the center section. I need to put some tufts around the windscreen and do a little flight testing to see what, if anything can be improved. The idea would be to smooth the airflow, not eliminate it. I didn't find the noise to be too bad, but the buffeting was really annoying. I was wearing an old David Clark Ag helmet and at times the airflow would be trying to lift the helmet from the rear, and the buffeting on the headset was at times painful.

My Hatz is noisy, I too have an old passive DC headset, but I never noticed any noticeable buffeting... but there are probably as many kinds of windshields as there are Hatzes. Mine are flat wrap (curved) windshields that are a bit higher than the top of my head, but I'm not a tall guy (5'7").